Yeah and King could always get turned into a vampire and work for the Crimson King.
Yeah and King could always get turned into a vampire and work for the Crimson King.
"It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.
"When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah
My Mood:
This was my only pet peeve for the entire series. I know it's for bringing the reader further into the story, and I did like it at first. After a while though, it seemed really corny.
It would've made more sense if he had used his Richard Bachman or John Swithen pen names. Bachman even more than Swithen since he used the last name of Bachman for the alternate author(s) of 'Charlie and the Choo Choo'... not to mention giving something else for the Ka-Tet to wonder about with coincidences.
I think I'm going to mentally translate Stephen King into Richard Bachman when I get to that part of the story again. It may make more sense to me. Not sure.
As always, whenever I'm a bit sleep deprived, be sure to understand that my mind's a bit muddled and free associating at the moment.
[edit]
Hark! There was a thread.
I must've not put in the right words for yon magic search engine.
Made of Fail.
In April 2002, King sent me the handwritten manuscript of this chapter as a thank-you gift for some work I'd done for the Wavedancer Foundation.
I thought it was the coolest thing ever at the time and it added a dimension to the series that nobody ever saw coming. A lot of King's writing has been an exploration of the nature of creativity and the act of creation--even as far back as The Shining--and this was another facet of that exploration, and a pretty darned profound one. Daring, too.
I totally agree with that. I think putting himself in the story was a way to bring the idea to us that was unique and totally believable.
The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket
I agree with Bev and Matt in principle, but I found it very jarring within the actual narrative when King appeared. I'm still not sure exactly how I feel about. Eddie even makes the comment that Roland could pass for King's older brother and I must say that I had a hard time visualizing that in my head (not saying anything negative about Stephen King's true physical appearance). Also, I've noticed a few comments about King only being a conduit and not Gan himself. There is a lot of buildup before Eddie and Roland actually see King and they are convinced they are about to see their creator. Because of the buildup, I think there might be some ambiguity about the whole subject. You might see what I mean if you read the passage. I'm not sure exactly how to say it. King may not be Gan, but he's seems damn close in the passages leading up to the actual encounter.
"It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.
"When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah
I agree with you on that CK, because I was one of those people. Over my long break away from work, I found the time to reread the last three books, and it is amazing all the things that I missed the first few times
CK. I've read the first four about four times apiece. I attempted to read the final three during my semester break. It's interesting that this thread appeared when it did. I actually read the scene with King in SoS this morning and asked my room mate about his response. This is the second time I've read SoS although I've already read DT twice and plan to read it a third within the next few weeks. I still find King jarring. I knew it was coming. It was foreshadowed in WofC, but I was still taken aback. Again, I understand the principle, am fond of it even, but still find it hard to digest in regards to the actual narrative. Maybe some of you have read "On Faire Stories" by Tolkien. It was an essay he wrote about fantasy as a genre. One of the points I remember is that for fantasy to be successful it must remain distinct from the actual world. LotR was conceptualized by Tolkien twenty years before the volumes were published in the fifties. He began with a language (always the linguist) and then let the genealogies and stories unfold from there. I could talk about this for hours, but suffice it to say, that King's appearance made it hard to for me to exist within the narrative imaginatively. The Gunslinger (as well as Eddie) began to lose their otherworldliness when presented next to a writer that exists in reality. Ironically, reality can make the fantasy even less real.
"It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.
"When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah
I'm sorting through it CK. I wasn't saying that Tolkien's point was true for the whole series. Its just that "going nineteen" made Roland's world so fantastical that it wasn't as believable to me as it was before. By presenting it side by side with the actual real world (Oz, King, Salem's Lot, Harry Potter etc...) it made it harder for me to exist within the fantasy. I wish it had the same effect on me that it did to you because I love Roland's world. In this sense, I was a little mad King showed up. (But it's his story and he is certainly free to do so).
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I had the same initial reaction as Obscurejude, I have to say. I was blithely enjoying this other world and then thud! King appeared and it...well, jarred is the exact word I remember using at the time on another forum.
However, as CK has pointed out - over subsequent rereads (and I think you need to leave a good amount of time inbetween rereading if you can, to be able to go back into the story with a fresh perspective) I can't imagine how the story could possibly flow without him, it seems fitting now.
And also, from another point of view - to the large majority of Constant Readers who are possibly never going to get to meet King, he is almost a fantasy himself, so its quite easy to consider him alongside the ka-tet, y'know?
"It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.
"When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah
AllHail: it's a novel. It defies the very concept of genre. It creates its own rules and plays by them, like any great novel does.
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I felt and feel absolutely the same way. Thank you for putting it into words, Lisa.
Anyway I must add King amezed me so much... when I first heard somewhere that he would appear in the book and when I first met him there I was sure it's impossible to make it acceptable (or make me accept or like it because I couldn't stand it at all) or good and it wouldn't fit the books.
And he did it! He put himself into the book and it was so damn great. It made this series much richer. It's still incredible to me. King was big in my eyes before that but now... I just say wow wow and wow again but it was so dangerous.. but he stood and he was true.
Congratulations, sai King.
Roland would have understood.
"It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.
"When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah
Its been about three years since I read it the first time. Still jarred unfortunately. Especially after reading Tolkien's essay. Don't hate me cause I'm still jarred. Also, I was using fantasy very broad Jean (as Tolkien did). I think its interesting to bring him into the conversation because King has several times in regards to DT, most notably in the new essay at the beginning of the revised Gunslinger. I'm not sure I understand any of your comments in this thread Jean (but I thoroughly enjoy most of yours).
Just to clarify, nothing I have posted in this thread is an initial response to King's appearance. I've been thinking about it for three years. Still jarred.
Oh yeah...I'm still jarred.
Did I mention the jarring aspect of King's appearance?
Again, I wish I felt the same as all of you. Maybe in another three years. Does anybody STILL feel the way I do? Please let me know.
Also, I'm a little giddy and I hope you all have a good evening.
Light sabers and sneetches? Seriously?
jude, I understand what you're saying, and I empathize. It just didn't have that effect on me. For me it lends itself to the concept that I discussed in another thread about all worlds revolving on the same axis. It would seem natural for things like sneetches, and light sabers (both major parts of our modern culture) to show up in Roland's world. Kings appearance also fits well within this framework for me. Also, if I look at it in the context of the series, where it bascially starts off with a young boy showing up in the way station from modern day NYC, it fits even more. LotR is much different, in that there was never any bleed between that world and our. The Talisman kind of addresses this topic as well, if memory serves me. Either way, I respect the fact that you're jarred by it, and different things hit different people different ways.
It's stressful being an other. ~ Juliet
I believe there ought to be a Constitutional Amendment outlawing Astroturf and the designated hitter. ~ Crash Davis
I appreciate the kind tone T. I love the concept idealogically, but again, it hurt what was going on inside my head when it came to the narrative.
What bugged me about SOS was Mia and Susanna chatting it up on the walls of the castle.
King being in the story was risky, but he pulled it off.
"The Constitution shall never be construed....to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms" (Samuel Adams, Debates and Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, 86-87)