Roland's
The Mejis folks' (who let it happen)
Cordelia's and Rhea's
Everyone's from above
Someone else's - /let us know please/
It was ka
Noone's
Roland did know the danger and the risk. (And I think risk is a keyword here.) He himself said it many times and told it to Susan and to his friends as well. It was metioned a lot of time that they could die... and he didn't kill Rhea, either so how the blue hell could he think that Susan's all right?
He thought (hoped) that ka or Gan or the White or these all together would have to save their lives. He was wrong.
Roland would have understood.
The same way we could blame her parents for having given her birth. People live, and other people plot against them to pursue their own petty ends; they scheme and intrigue and sometimes endanger someone's life, or more often just make it harder to live... this someone may go with the flow or rebel - that would have been her own choice - and then Someone Else comes, a romantic third party, to mess it all up, to bring her to the point of no return; and what's then? One could expect he would at least take care of her and protect her from those schemers and plotters? Fat chance. He's troubled the water as hard as he could and rode on following a glammer he saw in a goddamn glass.
In a word, Cordelia and the rest are just normal factors of a normal (hard) life. Roland is the only murderous agent here.
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Come come commala
My re-read starts tomorr-ah
And when I find the part I want
That Bear's a-gonna holl-ah
Letti, I agree that he knew she was in danger, I just don't think he knew the immediacy of it. I think he thought she was safe hiding with Sheemie. Should he have? Maybe not. Should he have killed Rhea when he had the chance? Without a doubt.
I might live in a dream-world but Cordelia is not just a normal factor of a normal life. She became insane. (Sometimes I do feel sorry for her. So did Susan if you remember.)
It's not so rare or unique but it's not usual either. Most of the people don't get crazy.
Roland would have understood.
but it was Roland who provoked her! if not for him, she would either have stayed relatively sane, although highly annoying, or become mildly insane without anobody caring
Commala come comeOriginally Posted by R_of_G
Bear is slow but not dumb!
When adversaries are worthy
He swallows head and heart and thumb!
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's stressful being an other. ~ Juliet
I believe there ought to be a Constitutional Amendment outlawing Astroturf and the designated hitter. ~ Crash Davis
Firstly, doesn't Cordelia's plotting make her responsible for the results of it?
Here's another question from all that.. does Susan have any responsibility to protect herself? She's not just a pawn for Roland and Cordelia to play with.
Also, very nice response to the Rice Song stanza I used. We should start a thread where we only talk to each other in Rice Song verse.
yes... but they all are normal responsibilities of a normal every-day life situation. Roland took the situation beyond every-day, turned it abnormal, extreme; provoked people into insanity and rage, and rode off. Following, I repeat spitting on the floor, something he (a gunslinger my ass!) saw in a piece of pink glass!
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
UMM..IT SEEMS YOU GUYS ARE FORDETING THE GUY THAT KILLED SUSAN'S DAD...HAD HER DAD NOT OF DIED, SHE WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN SAI THORIN'S GILLY, SO ON AND SO FORTH!!!
RoG I want you to know that I am not jumping in because it's been a long time since I read W&G. Not abandoning you bro, I just don't remember a lot of stuff. I'm almost done with Wastelands, so I'll be starting it soon. Perhaps we should pause this conversation until we've had time to do research
It's stressful being an other. ~ Juliet
I believe there ought to be a Constitutional Amendment outlawing Astroturf and the designated hitter. ~ Crash Davis
I'd say Rhea did that, at least with respect to Cordelia. In fact, I'd put the blame for the rest of Hambry's insanity on Rhea and Eldred Jonas, not Roland and his tet. Remember, the outrage was sparked by the murder of Thorin. The town only thought the boys did it thanks to Jonas' plans. If your theory is that Roland created the insanity by preventing Hambry from aiding Farson in his plans, then they deserved to be driven insane for that was not a noble cause for them to be following. If he caused the insanity by falling for Susan, it cuts both ways love does. She fell for him as well. She was a big girl, she could have said no.
Good point Ender, and well along the lines of where I've been on this one since the begining. Like I said earlier, we could just as easily blame Arthur Eld for swearing his line to protect the Tower to begin with. The point is, Roland didn't cause Susan's situation, nor did he take advantage of it. BOTH of them made conscious decisions.
I absolutely agree...best point i've read.
but I do not blame him for that. It's for not protecting the girl he loved and abandoning her in the turmoil he created that I blame him, not for the turmoil itself. (OK, I could add another responsible party - civil war itself - but it's rather "what" than "who".)Originally Posted by R_of_G
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Maybe now is the time to ask what would you who blame Roland have had him do? Should he have taken Susan with him to Eyebolt Canyon? I can't imagine a battlefield is the safest place for her either. She was brave as hell but surely not a gunslinger. Should he have ridden back to Hambry after the battle? If she were already dead would it matter? If she weren't, what would he do, create an early version of Tull by killing every man woman and child in town to free his love?
I am always inclined to blame it on the man, yes.
Though I don't mean their love only. I mean all Roland's activities.
Regarding R_of_G latest question: now I have to confess that I don't remember the text all that well (it's the volume I normally avoid rereading unless I have to), and was arguingfor the sake of argumenton general principles. It doesn't change my opinion on anything I already said regarding Roland's forgetting the face of his father, though (choosing glammer over common sense and good judgement). Moreover, even if there had been nothing he could do (which I cannot be sure of before I reread the text), he abandoned her nevertheless, dismissed her as being "safe", which (and this is the scene I remember very well) clearly reads as "no longer important".
::crawls into his den to brace himself for a reread::
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!