That Thing, You Can Only Talk About If You've Finished the Series

[jayson]

I too wonder why the desert, particularly for those who feel the loop is some kind of "do-over" that Roland has to get "right" before he is released from the cycle. As far as that goes, I think Lisa's answer is as good as any.

For me, not necessarily believing that the loops are the same every time, I think there are two reasons of "why the desert." (1) I think the only thing that is the same is Walter and the desert is where he found Walter's trail, and (2) with the cyclical ending, King wanted to bring things back to the literal beginning of the series.

[TerribleT]

I too wonder why the desert, particularly for those who feel the loop is some kind of "do-over" that Roland has to get "right" before he is released from the cycle.

I DESPISE that idea, it brings to mind the movie Groundhog Day (which I love) and to me that debases the series to the point where it's cheap and tawdry.

[jayson]

I DESPISE that idea, it brings to mind the movie Groundhog Day (which I love) and to me that debases the series to the point where it's cheap and tawdry.

Agreed again T. To me anyway Roland has more to save then just himself, as opposed to Bill Murray who had only to achieve his own enlightenment. I too love that film, though as a religious studies major I had to watch it for several classes and wrote at least one lengthy paper on it so it became kind of academic for me. I did give my professor a new way of looking at the title though that he has continues to use in his subsequent lectures [in short, Bill Murray needed to become self-less, in other words, to not see his own shadow]. For Roland, I feel there is more to it than that [not to mention I still don't think Roland is selfish].

[TerribleT]

[not to mention I still don't think Roland is selfish].

Exactly, I see Roland's quest for the tower as an inherently selfless act, in the finest tradition of The Line of Eld, and Gunslingers. He never forgets the face of Steven Deschain, and there's a certain nobility about him which is at once barbaric, and civilized. I've always seen Roland, and gunslingers, for that matter, as knights of the highest order, of the finest character, training and courage. I do not think Roland pursues the tower because he wants to see it, although that's a bonus. I think he pursues the tower because he feels as though it's his obligation and duty. I think he would cry off of the tower in an instant if he felt he had some higher obligation which was less appealing to him.

[reckless113]

Exactly, I see Roland's quest for the tower as an inherently selfless act, in the finest tradition of The Line of Eld, and Gunslingers. He never forgets the face of Steven Deschain, and there's a certain nobility about him which is at once barbaric, and civilized. I've always seen Roland, and gunslingers, for that matter, as knights of the highest order, of the finest character, training and courage. I do not think Roland pursues the tower because he wants to see it, although that's a bonus. I think he pursues the tower because he feels as though it's his obligation and duty. I think he would cry off of the tower in an instant if he felt he had some higher obligation which was less appealing to him.[/QUOTE]

I couldn't agree more!

[JoeLocc425]

[not to mention I still don't think Roland is selfish].

Exactly, I see Roland's quest for the tower as an inherently selfless act, in the finest tradition of The Line of Eld, and Gunslingers. He never forgets the face of Steven Deschain, and there's a certain nobility about him which is at once barbaric, and civilized. I've always seen Roland, and gunslingers, for that matter, as knights of the highest order, of the finest character, training and courage. I do not think Roland pursues the tower because he wants to see it, although that's a bonus. I think he pursues the tower because he feels as though it's his obligation and duty. I think he would cry off of the tower in an instant if he felt he had some higher obligation which was less appealing to him.

Roland feels like it's the right thing to do.

[Mattrick]

Agreed again T. To me anyway Roland has more to save then just himself, as opposed to Bill Murray who had only to achieve his own enlightenment. I too love that film, though as a religious studies major I had to watch it for several classes and wrote at least one lengthy paper on it so it became kind of academic for me. I did give my professor a new way of looking at the title though that he has continues to use in his subsequent lectures [in short, Bill Murray needed to become self-less, in other words, to not see his own shadow]. For Roland, I feel there is more to it than that [not to mention I still don't think Roland is selfish].

I think Roland is definitely selfish. his 'loop' is purposely designed to have scenario similar to Mejis and, we'll find out if maybe, Jericho Hill. All the same he lets Jake fall. He chose the tower over Jake, who is the catalyst for the story. Whether it is for duty or obligation or simply because, over all else, he needs to see it and touch it and go to the room at the top. He still lets Jake drop. All obstacles set before Roland are interconnected tests.


As for the desert, it's a logical place to begin. It's desolate, no life, it's dry and Roland is alone. The tower is in a field full of roses (roses are hard to grow) and it's the end the complete opposite of a desert. Due to heat it and exhaustion and dehydration it wouldn't be uncommon to feel a moment of vertigo and have a slight hallucination. It's the kind of thing that would be forgotten about after taking a sip of water from a waterskin and continuing on. Brown is his first encounter, where he recalls David, his hawk, the first of many sacrifices to come. I'm still not beyond Brown being Flagg or Fannin due to him also being at the waystation with Callahan while Roland was leaving with Jake.

In terms of the loops, well we all know Eddie is in reverence to Cuthbert and Jake is to Allain well the name Susannah is symbolic as well. Wasn't Susan pregnant with Roland's child before she burned? Well, Mordred is Roland/Susannah/Crimson King so it's as if the baby he never got to father is suddenly there. That's why I think the back story is so important. Of course, I Haven't read Gunslinger Born yet but my friend just bought them all in a Hardcover book.

[Jean]

I DESPISE that idea, it brings to mind the movie Groundhog Day (which I love) and to me that debases the series to the point where it's cheap and tawdry.

if there had never been such a movie, would you feel the same?

[TerribleT]

I DESPISE that idea, it brings to mind the movie Groundhog Day (which I love) and to me that debases the series to the point where it's cheap and tawdry.

if there had never been such a movie, would you feel the same?

Good point.

[Dud-a-chum?]

I too wonder why the desert, particularly for those who feel the loop is some kind of "do-over" that Roland has to get "right" before he is released from the cycle. As far as that goes, I think Lisa's answer is as good as any.

For me, not necessarily believing that the loops are the same every time, I think there are two reasons of "why the desert." (1) I think the only thing that is the same is Walter and the desert is where he found Walter's trail, and (2) with the cyclical ending, King wanted to bring things back to the literal beginning of the series.

Go read my opinion in the "The Tower" thread to see why I don't believe the loop is different each time and see if you could agree with that point of view.

Since I truly believe that King intended the loop to be the same everytime, there must be a specific reason as to why Roland resets there every time. Personally, I think it's because it signifies the beginning of Roland's "redemption" (hence the subtitle, unless I'm totally wrong about that, which is more than likely possible.), in other woprds, the point in which Roland will begin to make very key desicions in his journy; decisions that will effect the overall outcome of the quest; will he let Jake fall? Will he treat his tet members with more respect than the Tower? Will he learn to value the right thins in life? These are all decisions he makes after the desert, so that is my guess as to why he starts there. I realize there are decisions he made wrong before that moment, as well, but obviousely Gan has changed those choices this tiem around, I mean, Roland has the horn now, right?

[sgc1999]

I too wonder why the desert, particularly for those who feel the loop is some kind of "do-over" that Roland has to get "right" before he is released from the cycle. As far as that goes, I think Lisa's answer is as good as any.

For me, not necessarily believing that the loops are the same every time, I think there are two reasons of "why the desert." (1) I think the only thing that is the same is Walter and the desert is where he found Walter's trail, and (2) with the cyclical ending, King wanted to bring things back to the literal beginning of the series.

True, after all, KA is a wheel