I think the title of this thread is the best I have ever seen so far.
I think the title of this thread is the best I have ever seen so far.
Roland would have understood.
don't thinks so. I'm not alowed dirsct access to the pills. i have to get them from a parent (remember, i'm 17) and apparently reading the bottle will not only counter the effects of the drug, but cause my mind to rise to a higher level than humanity. But it starts with an K
You don't even know what your taking? I'd HAVE to know ...17 or otherwise. I mean I understand them wanting to dole them out to you, but I see no harm in reading the bottle.
i used to take ritalin, but it made the voices go away. and bad things happen when the voices go away. I currently refer to the 8th grade science fair
I was sooo pretty
This is quoted in an attempt to undo what Razz did by unnecessarily interrupting a very good conversation. Remember that scene at the end of the Last Samurai- the highest compliment you could pay a person, well, Razz never has to worry about hearing "I have enjoyed our conversations."
Obscure*: thank you for getting it back to topic. Razz: I would strongly recommend reading first, and posting next; that seems to be the established procedure.
*and yes, I have enjoyed our conversations...
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks for the bump, Ryan.
I find the observation on King's portrayal of protestant verses Catholic characters very interesting. I would say, however, that it's a particular brand of protestantism that comes off bad - the evangelical protestants. Mother Abigail, for example, was certainly a sympathetic character. Perhaps he leans toward and/or appears to favor Catholicism more because of the penance/forgiveness aspect of the faith.
Interesting. Of course if this is an eternal struggle, the next natural question is who or what was keeping the balance before Roland was born? Was it even in peril before Roland's birth? Was there another called to save the Tower? We don’t see or hear evidence of this in Roland’s story, but is that by design? As another asked earlier: will there be another White pawn (for he does seem to be a pawn in this interpretation) after Roland achieves salvation?Originally Posted by R_of_G
Great questions Ryan. My thoughts are... assuming the Tower as the physical embodiment of Gan, Roland isn't necessarily "saving" Gan, more than he maintaining order and balance. White can't entirely replace Red, nor vice versa, but if one gets the upper hand and "controls" the Tower than things are out of balance. As the World Axis, the Tower must remain equidistant between polar opposites [white and red as order and chaos in this case]. You can't have one without the other, but neither should be allowed to dominate. By "saving" the Tower I mean banishing the CK and Mordred from getting control of it this time through the loop. It's my belief that Roland represents the White in this necessarily constant struggle and that is why he loops, bc balance is attained but needs to be constantly maintained. It is not permanent.
Since we know the Tower is saved when Blue Heaven falls, Roland’s continuing to the Tower and dogged determination to climb it, to reach Gan (or his placing the reaching of the Tower above human life), could be compared to the builders of the Tower of Babel and their attempt to reach God (or their placing the building of their great tower above human life). Thus, Roland being cast back into a loop at the end could be paralleled to the splitting of tongues the Babel builders received.
I hope that made sense. It's just my early morning first cup of coffee thoughts*.
*I don’t often get a chance to give these things the thought they need for good replies.
Last edited by Woofer; 06-19-2008 at 03:39 AM. Reason: I always have at least one typo to fix.
It'll take a lot more than words and guns,
A whole lot more than riches and muscle.
The hands of the many must join as one.
And together we'll cross the river.
Puscifer, "The Humbling River"
I still remain unconvinced that the Tower was saved after Blue Heaven. The Beam was made safe. This made the Tower safer in the short term, but the CK was still around and Mordred was on his way to the Tower. If Mordred reached the Tower before Roland, or if he managed to kill Roland than he and the CK could have entered the Tower together and I don't see that as being a beneficial thing for the Tower.
GAH! R_of_G you are 100% correct. There we see my assumption that the Tower is saved when the Beam is made safe.
It'll take a lot more than words and guns,
A whole lot more than riches and muscle.
The hands of the many must join as one.
And together we'll cross the river.
Puscifer, "The Humbling River"
You could be right Woofer. My theory is just that, a theory. There's really no evidence either way. It's all speculation, which is what makes Dt so much fun.
i don't think the tower was saved or made safer. the beam was saved, yes. sheemie practically shouted blue heaven down telling them all that "the beam says thankya" and that it would be fine and could be healed. but neither he (sheemie) nor it (in its boy guise) said anything about the tower being safe or saved.
with mordred on his/its way there, the crimson king hanging out (and i use that term loosely, only out of disdain) on a balcony, and all the perils still in the way (ex. dandelo) i think the tower was still in danger.
in fact, i think it's possible that the tower will remain in danger until roland finally gets it right. and i mean really gets it right. all of it, not just most of it. has the horn, has the guns of his father, has his complete ka-tet. has all the pieces he needs to complete the journey the way it was meant to be completed. he's learning bits and pieces and i think it's possible that important bits and pieces stay with him, but until he gets it right all the way the tower is in danger. just as the beam was in danger until blue heaven was brought down.
but i don't think this makes him an enemy of the white any more than it would make walter an agent of the white. he chose his side long ago, he made a conscious decision to stand and be true and i think he's made some bad decisions but i don't think he's ever wavered from his first decision to stand for the tower. i think the real question is (or should be) is gan the white? or is it more nebulous than that.
oh yes, or else we would be stuck with some half-assed Manicheanism
(that's one of the reasons why the Tower is Dark, and the rose red - neither of them white)
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If the White means civilization and purpose as opposed to the destructive insanity of the Red, then I'd say that Roland has less trouble with it than Gan does. If Gan has been punishing Roland for losing fellowship, for placing his work ahead of being kind to people, then why doesn't Gan do so? Is Gan intelligent, or just a magical object? Why not speak?
I believe Gan would not speak because Roland was not yet ready to take his/her/its place in the Tower. Mayhaps the Horn of Eld will reconstruct the Tower in Rolands's image. Did'nt the Roses make a 'Horn' type sound at the end of DT book 7? If Roland took ownership of the Tower, would the current Reality become the new 'Prim' and a new Tower spews forth? Is that why the beasts of the Prim want to destroy the Beams? Turning the great wheel of Ka backwards instead of forwards?
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
28 in 23 (?)!!!!
63 in '23!!!!!!!!!!
My Collection: https://www.thedarktower.org/palaver...ion-Merlin1958
The Houston Astros cheated Major League Baseball from 2017-18!!!! Is that how we teach our kids to play the game now?????
there has been others that have taken this quest. If you read the last book TWTTK it states that Tim Ross, a boy that becomes a gunslinger that is not from Gilead takes the journey to The Dark Tower. Although it does not say what he goes through he is one of the earlier ones to take the trip.
Does whatever a spiderman does.