I too agree the series is deep on many, many levels. And as much as I consider King a genius, I have to wonder if he knowingly did that, or if it is just some of us who tend to over-analyze things.
Saved: the next loop is the last before final salvation
Saved: after a number of loops
Saved (neither of the above: give your own version)
Damned: the next loop is the last before final damnation
Damned: stuck in the eternal loop forever
Damned (neither of the above: give your own version)
I too agree the series is deep on many, many levels. And as much as I consider King a genius, I have to wonder if he knowingly did that, or if it is just some of us who tend to over-analyze things.
It's peanut butter jelly time!
Sometimes I wonder if we read the same book...
I gave some arguments here, but it's only the beginning. I will go back to the question of Roland learning to love and care in the future - though I hope that someone who will do it better than I can might treat this topic first.
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I understand he reconsidered Jean, all the way through the book we saw him struggling with this question but it didn't stop him.
Drug addicts and alcoholics also struggle with their obsession but that does not stop them from walking over their mother to get at it.
The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket
A new question arises, then (probably not for this thread, though): is obsession bad because it is an obsession or because of its object and the means used to get that object? I mean, drugs are intrinsically bad, and I am not sure there's anything intrinsically bad in the desire to see the Tower, let alone to save the universe. Should, for example, great scientists or artists have "cried off" as soon as they realized they were obsessed?
In other word, I don't think he should have stopped his quest. But he should learn to choose his means on his way to the Tower - which is precisely what he's been learning to do during all 7 books.
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Last edited by Jean; 07-25-2007 at 10:14 AM. Reason: merged as two consecutive posts with nothing warranting them being separate
"It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.
"When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah
If it's a true obsession, regardless if it's crystal meth or needing to vacuum the floor three times a day, I'm gonna to say it's bad.
Maybe the object of obsession isn't bad, but having it be is...it's a mental flaw, and one that disallows for logical thinking and behaviour.
It's peanut butter jelly time!
I think an obsession that is not a postive influence on your life could be considered a bad thing.
I am obsessed with Dora and I love it, but it is a positive thing in my life. If I was obsessed with her and she didn't want it...
stalking...
police...
restraining order...
jail time...
should probably try to get over the obsession, it would be ruining my life at that point
The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket
I don't consider love obsession. Sounds like you two just truely love each other.
It's peanut butter jelly time!
That could be true to. I suppose its all about perspective.
I can agree with the statement that all obsessive behavior is bad and reclassify my blinding devotion to Dora
The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket
And here all this time I thought Matt was obsessed with me!
"It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.
"When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah
You looked so scared when you found that dead cat in your mailbox.
^Lisey's Story.
I love cats
The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket
I pretty much took that to be the main theme aswell. Saving the universe becomes urgent to you the reader, as I'm sure it is to Eddie, Suze and Jake - but remember Roland admitting to Eddie, Jean, that he'd sacrifice even the beams to get to the Tower (DT7 - at Agul Siento I think, can't remember without looking).
Yes. That's precisely why we've been discussing all that for years instead of resuming the moral in two words and calling it a day. I can't think of another tale that would be so complicated.
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I was replying to the wrong page by accident! I was agreeing with Matt that the main theme is letting go of our obsessions - but I also agree with you Jean that its very layered and complex and can't be described as having a single moral to the story.
GRRR! I can't vote. I'm torn. I want and hope that this would be his last loop but damn you Stephen King if you wouldn't damn him for eternity
Lalalalaaaa, lalalalaaa
Lalalalaaaa, lalalalaaa
sugarpop <3
I voted Saved, the next is his last.
I vote that way because of the horn (which I do believe is important, mostly because of its use is the poem) and simply because Roland not finally finding peace is just too heart-breaking for me. Roland rules!
I didn't read everyone's posts, but I would have to say it depends. If the story in the books is the actual first cycle, then he could me saved, eventually. However, I also think that the tower is in repeated jeapordy, and Roland (like it or not) may be the savior of the tower no matter what. If the story continues, there could be a different nemesis, and he has to find a way to save it. His memory is lost, so he never really knows how many times he saves it. It could be the reason why he is older. Although, you would think that Gan would reward him for his effort and release him from his duty.
As far as the horn goes, what if the last time he lost one of his guns, and after saving the tower was rewarded with his second gun.
The Tardis (Time And Relative Dimension(s) In Space) duh!
I threw this out somewhere else, but I'll post it again here because it's relevant to the thread. I ran across a really good piece of fanfic that covers this very topic. It's kind of the ending I wish had happened. http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2747620/1/
"People, especially children, aren't measured by their IQ. What's important about them is whether they're good or bad, and these children are bad." ~ Alan Bernard
"You needn't die happy when your day comes, but you must die satisfied, for you have lived your life from beginning to end and ka is always served." ~ Roland Deschain
Ugh, Los save me from "I wish it would have happened like this" fan fiction.
"It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.
"When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.
"When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah
I'm not so sure just anyone can see the tower. Er, let me try to rephrase that. I think the tower Roland was was "Roland's Tower", perhaps everyone has there own...kind like heaven?
So as long as Roland is damned so is the tower.
Does that make any sense to anyone?
It's peanut butter jelly time!
it does. Paradoxically, it doesn't have to prevent the Tower still remaining One and Only. It is One, and it is "his own" for everyone who seeks it and finds it in him to go till the end.
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!