Stephen King's new Holly Gibney novel "Holly" (September 5, 2023)

[St. Troy]

While I won't know what's in a particular King novel until I read it, and my hope is that I'm wrong, I think it comes down to how successfully he can keep his Twitter feed out of his work, and based on bits of Elevation, The Institute, and the Hodges trilogy, I'm concerned that he might not.

For the record, I would find it just as dull if I shared his positions (I don't want characters to slap each other on the back and compliment each other's MAGA hats).

Im about 75% through Billy Summers, and hasn't been much of that, if any. It's set in 2019, so some of his characters make passing references to Trump - pro and con.

Normally I wouldn’t expect passing references to be obtrusive, but I’ve heard from someone who started Billy Summers that the 5 Trump references he noted in the first 57 pages caused him to stop reading it (at least temporarily).

I would be very happy to be proved wrong about Billy Summers.

I'm not at all concerned about COVID being a plot point of the new book. Our entire society was changed for 18 months - it stands to reason that writers are going to write about it.

I agree it stands to reason that writers will tackle it, but I doubt his ability (or willingness) to do so without politicizing it (he almost certainly will pick a bone with someone, and it ain't going to be China).

I would be very happy to be proved wrong about this future novel.

…King was making political jabs at political figures as far back in The Shining.

Specific occasional jabs are one thing; ongoing fixation with the specific individual about whom his side of the political spectrum has obsessed for 6 years is another.

There’s a lengthy chapter in It detailing the homophobia in Maine culminating in a hate crime that was based off a real incident at the time.

Homophobia isn’t political (those who disagree on gay marriage agree that violence against gay people is unacceptable); it only becomes political if/when one side tars the other with imagined support for it.

The Mellon incident was notable and informative in the context of It because of what it said about Derry (willingness to ignore witnessed horror, primarily the widespread disappearance of children - also apolitical, unless some thought conservative readers rooted for Pennywise) and what it said about those who attacked Mellon (who acted on behalf of their twisted ideas about, and their insecurity with, their masculinity - not on behalf of the Reagan agenda).

The abortion debate was a huge part of Insomnia with the climax involving terrorists attacking a woman’s clinic.

While abortion battle lines do tend to follow political positions, as you note, those that attacked the clinic didn’t do so because they were conservative, they did so because they were terrorists (not to mention under the influence of "higher level beings" that manipulated characters in order to ensure the death of a particular character).

All of which is to say: while King has done a good job involving and examining social currents in America through things like Mellon, Susan Day, and others, this isn't what readers like myself are referring to.

[Hunchback Jack]

Normally I wouldn’t expect passing references to be obtrusive, but I’ve heard from someone who started Billy Summers that the 5 Trump references he noted in the first 57 pages caused him to stop reading it (at least temporarily).

I would be very happy to be proved wrong about Billy Summers.

Five references in 50 pages is hardly a manifesto, and the references themselves are (if I recall correctly) more talking about whether a character supports Trump or not, rather than jabs or snide remarks at Trump himself. And the characters aren't divided into good and evil, or into smart and dumb, based on that preference, either. I'm not 100% sure I recall correctly, honestly, because the Trump references barely registered with me. They are not relevant to the story or characters. Anyone offended by those references is looking for a reason to get offended, in my opinion.

But you should read the book for yourself.

HBJ

[St. Troy]

Five references in 50 pages is hardly a manifesto...

Agreed, absolutely.

...you should read the book for yourself.

I definitely will (at some point).

[CyberGhostface]

Specific occasional jabs are one thing; ongoing fixation with the specific individual about whom his side of the political spectrum has obsessed for 6 years is another.

People are always fixated on whoever the president is. King has done a few digs at Trump but he hasn't written an entire novel with a Trump analogue yet like he did with Bush and Cheney.

Homophobia isn’t political (those who disagree on gay marriage agree that violence against gay people is unacceptable); it only becomes political if/when one side tars the other with imagined support for it.

Having gay characters experiencing homophobia period has been deemed political. I.E. it's with the Christian Right it's "the gay agenda". People were writing negative reviews for Elevation because it was "political" even though it was probably the most softball thing King ever wrote with as much edge as a butterknife. But hey, it's a lesbian couple experiencing prejudice, why does King have to go 'woke' etc,

While abortion battle lines do tend to follow political positions, as you note, those that attacked the clinic didn’t do so because they were conservative, they did so because they were terrorists (not to mention under the influence of "higher level beings" that manipulated characters in order to ensure the death of a particular character).

Even if you are looking at it from as neutral perspective positive (I.e. they're being influenced by a cosmic force to kill someone) you still have pro-life activists attacking an abortion center. One of the main antagonists beats the crap out of his wife because she signed a pro-abortion petition.

If King wrote, in 2021, the same exact book in response to what's going on right now in Texas and the Supreme Court I have no doubt that the people who think King is too political and riding the woke train would attack him for it.

[St. Troy]

People are always fixated on whoever the president is.

This country has never seen anything like the anti-Trump attitude.

Having gay characters experiencing homophobia period has been deemed political. I.E. it's with the Christian Right it's "the gay agenda".

That's removed from your It example, which concerned violence and not disagreement with conservatives (you might've thought that's what King was getting at, but that wasn't on the page).

If you change the issue from violence to the conversation surrounding gay issues, it's no longer "homophobia;" it's social disagreement.

People were writing negative reviews for Elevation because it was "political" even though it was probably the most softball thing King ever wrote with as much edge as a butterknife.

That's what happens when you burden a book with "I apologize for being an older white male."

But hey, it's a lesbian couple experiencing prejudice, why does King have to go 'woke' etc,

This perspective has always greatly amused me: the lesbian restaurant is in danger of going out of business, and this obviously must be due to homophobic locals, because new restaurants in small towns in remote seasonal areas opened by outsiders always succeed, right? Classic lazy liberal identity politics thinking (I actually liked Elevation and even I saw this).

Members of aggrieved groups should watch a Chappelle Show sketch called "The Monsters" (I tried but couldn't find a good video); here's a description from a review:

This sketch was presented in black and white, labeled "The Monsters" and featuring Charlie as Frankenstein's monster, Dave as The Werewolf, and Donnell as The Mummy, we got to see just how the world treats these monsters. Appropriately entitled "The System Is Not Designed For Us," this sketch followed how the monsters perceived racism from simple criticism about their monsters qualities (Frankenstein is violent, The Werewolf is naked, and The Mummy is slow).

The point is, if something happens to you, it probably has nothing to do with your "identity."

To the point of this thread/conversation: being lazy enough to think it always is about identity makes for writing that many who think of themselves as King readers will find repellent.

...One of the main antagonists beats the crap out of his wife because she signed a pro-abortion petition...

...but mainly because he (Ed Deepneau) was being manipulated by Atropos (not politics).