Perhaps this is not the right place to post this? But, discuss!
http://dailydead.com/stephen-king-an...quel-dr-sleep/
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Perhaps this is not the right place to post this? But, discuss!
http://dailydead.com/stephen-king-an...quel-dr-sleep/
Not really. We have a thread in the Oracle (news) section. Once the book is published, then we'll read it and discuss it here. Hopefully sooner rather than later :)
I thought a place to start discussing the books should be started, so here it is!
John
Spoilers already marked? Check. OK so I am like 175 pages in an just have a couple of light observations. Nothing too revealing, nut you can never be too careful these days.
First, king seems to have changed his thoughts regarding Danny and Jack from the original book ending, through his supervised TV movie and now "Dr. Sleep". While young, Danny and Jack' relationship could hardly be described as close, there was at least always the underlying love, understanding a most importantly (IMHO) final redemption of Jack in the end. That seemed to be answered once and for all in King' TV adaption. Now, Older Danny, seems to have lost all touch with those feelings in "Dr. Sleep" and has markedly different views on his Dad. Don't get me wrong, I fully understand the reason/motive, given Danny' own life path, just thought it was an interesting touch in Dr. Sleep" and worth mentioning, perhaps discussing.
Second, anyone notice the parallel's to young "Charlie" in "Firestarter" that seem to pervade young "Abra's" childhood? I thought that was kinda cool, too.
Third, there seems to be some underlying character/monster theme from previous novel's to the "True Knot" that I have yet to put my finger on. Again, not "bashing" or suggesting anything wrong here. Just my observations so far. I am greatly enjoying this read, so far. So much so that I woke in the middle of the night to go back to it and read 75 or so more pages before drifting off again. Can't wait to get back to it!!!
I like it better than "Joyland" so far, but that probably has to do more with it's relation to "The Shining" and it's very familiar characters than anything else.
Thoughts?
Only about 100 pages in. So far the True Knot aspect of the story has more of a Joe Hill vibe to it than SK.
I was thinking the same thing. I feel like the book is very much like NOS4A2 Spanning many years Instead of focusing on a short period of time. I liked the confined element of the shining, i loved all the ghosts in the shining. i felt that the shining was really scary. If you read the afterward by Stephen King and a few reviews it puts you into a better perspective of what to expect from the book. My expectations were so high, that i ended up not liking it so much. Had i known what he was trying to do and why, i think i would of liked it alot better from a literary perspective. I think the shining aspect was to help sell books maybe?
True Knot did nothing for me. I needed more character development for some of the true knot.
Funny, I find the True to be A) a very interesting and intriguing "new Twist" and, B) a sort of ying to Danny/Abra's yang. So far at least. In my mind you could almost call the True the "Anti-Shining", which I kinda dig. I'm still only around 200 pages, but there seems to be much more about the True' origins/background to come. With few exceptions, I am really liking how "The Shining" is intertwined by King. Sidewinder, Tony, etc. The only small hiccup (that for some reason is nagging at me) is the different slant on the Danny/Jack relationship. I mean, I pretty well get the reason behind it to a degree, but for some reason it is a little "off-putting". IMHO.
Edit: Perhaps, it is just that it somewhat deflates my personal feeling of a "silver lining, in anotherwise very dark cloud", with regard to the end of "The Shining".
I'm about to start chapter 4 and like the book so far.
The True Knot is interesting. They haven't been developed much so far.
I like Abra. I like Danny still. I would like more stories of their early development.
So far, so good.
I love every page of it and think the True Knot are excellent villains. It's not a sequel to The Shining in my view. It's a new novel with Danny from The Shining. I love Danny and he's a great character. The Shining could never have a true sequel because of the way it ended. As for being like NOS4A2.... I can't disagree more. That was cartoonish and over the top.
I loved it. I never expected it to be a sequel to The Shining but just a continuation of Danny's story. There was not a single scary moment and the characters lacked the depth I'm used to seeing from King. Overall, I was very pleased. The ending was very satisfying, not just for this book, but for Danny.
My only nagging question right now is about something Dick told Danny in The Shining that flat out contradicts Dr. Sleep. If Dick knew the "ghosties" were different and could materialize and hurt Danny, why did he just tell him to close his eyes to make them go away when he was little?
And totally irrelevant to everyone but me, SK's obsession with my life continues. My daughter's nickname is Abba and we are in Anniston :D
When I was comparing it to NOS4A2, I was talking about the scope or time frame of the book. I agree NOS4a2 was cartoonish, etc... Dr Sleep spanned from when the shining ended and followed years of his and Abbas life. I found NOS4A2 to be excellent in the beginning when the mom was young and was finding things for people. I loved the beginning of Dr Sleep when he was moving around and trying to find his place. I would of loved for him to spend more time helping his patients, I enjoyed that aspect of the story immensely. left me wanting more in the nursing home, with his "patients".
I also found the lady who could put people to sleep quite intriquing and thought her story could have been fleshed out a lot more
Even ABbas powers would of made a great story
I am past the 300 page mark and still enjoying it immensely. In fact, I hadda take a break. Since I haven't finished yet I am making a prediction for the end. Danny, Jack, Dick & Wendy all reunite at the clearing at the end of the path at the end of Dr. Sleep. Not sure why I feel that, just a "shine" I suppose!!! LOL
Also, I'm curious what you folks feel the differences are between the "Hotel people" and the "True Knot". Other than the obvious, they seem very much related in some ways, yet very different in others. Sort of like "cousins". Any thoughts?
I really enjoyed this book! abra's character is my favorite. I felt like it started kind of slow and picked up quite nicely once Dan and Abra met. I typically don't over analyze books and this one is no different. I just enjoy the story. I will get the audiobook and listen to it again before the end of the year. Maybe after a reread of The Shinng.
Overall an enjoyable read. Would have been content with just the recovery, hospice, and Dan's relationship with Abra as the storyline but no complaints. For me the vibe was a cross between The Dead Zone and Firestarter. It was fun coming across many sayings/adjectives that I was initially exposed to in 'Salem's Lot back in 1976 such as preternatural, desultory, trifle, jahoobies, and Jesus Jumped Up Christ. Jerusalem's Lot even gets a curtain call. A very entertaining and well written book that, while a sequel to a classic, is strong enough to stand on its own.
I'm almost finished (Thank you to my Dr. who was running 2 hrs behind schedule today), and I suppose I am slipping in my old age. I just did not see the
Spoiler:
I have to say that I have not enjoyed, nor anticipated a King novel like this one in many years. Probably since TDT was finishing up. Don't get me wrong I tore through 11/22/63, TWTTKH, Joyland and UTD with the usual vigor, but this one just seems a little more "special"!!! 10-01-2013 12:02 AMJean 10-01-2013 03:10 PMMerlin1958Really? Sometimes you are a quandry, Jean. Then again, "The Shining" is a favorite of mine so in many ways "Dr. Sleep" is a trip down memory lane. Just finished it earlier today. Man, I so very much enjoyed it. And, bonus, he "ended" it well!! LOL Push on, Jean I think you will be happy you did so in the end. 10-01-2013 05:10 PMjhanicI think my biggest problem with Doctor Sleep was the pervasiveness of the AA throughout almost the entire book. I realize that, in some respects, it is integral to the story, but enough is enough.
Other than that, I really enjoyed the book, especially the various confrontations with the True Knot. Those were truly great.
John 10-01-2013 05:46 PMWeDealInLeadI hate to admit it, but it's been a full week since I bought the book and I'm not even half done. I can't exactly pinpoint the issue I'm having because it's good book, I like the story, the writing is phenomenal, his dialogue is true to life, characters are believable and I really should be enthralled...except I'm not.
I'm not a writer so I'll try to explain this in terms in know: music. Imagine 11/22/63, Joyland and Doctor Sleep are songs, or better yet records. It feels like King used the same guitar on all three, the same standard tuning, through the same old trusty amp and cab combination, and while these are just tools, he also seems to start each song in the same key. Most songs on an individual album will start with either a drum beat, or a guitar riff, or a bass line, feedback, a sample etc. or any combination of them. Further, most bigger bands will use a different studio and even different producers for each consecutive record. Example are first five Metallica albums. You'll never confuse them because they're so distinct from one another (production, song structures, sound, lyrics) but you will never for a second forget it's the same band.
Shift back to those three books being novels. While I was reading those books, it felt like King wrote them in the same sitting. I'm not stupid enough to think that's what happened but to me that's the feel/vibe I'm getting. He seems to have used the same voice on all three books, even though they're such different books. It feels like he finished Joyland, made himself a cup of coffee and dove right into Doctor Sleep.
This would, I think, be less of an issue for me if it weren't three books in a row. I'm looking at my shelf and I picked three books at random: The Eyes of the Dragon, Misery, Tommyknockers. Each distinct and a voice fitting to the story. I could add It and The Dark Half to make it five books in a row and they all feeldifferent. Different guitar, amp, different tuning etc. I could have picked any 3-5 random books it seems: FaB8, Lisey's Story, Duma Key, Cell, JAS, UtD. Again, different voice in all of them.
The problem is probably me. I was expecting and hoping King would hurt me. I was hoping he would (pardon my language, but it fits) fuck me up. I was imagining King laughing this mean belly laughter bwahaha, because he did say that this was going to be one scary book. Scares and cheap thrills are not why I read King, but man, I'd love to see King scare the living bejeezus out of me once again.
So, this is my melodramatic explanation why Doctor Sleep didn't completely "grab me." It's a good book for sure, but it wouldn't make Top Ten. Top 15 maybe. Top 20 for sure.
Late edit: I just remembered an article from the Stephen King special editon of Fantasy & Science Fiction. I can't remember it exactly, and the book is in storage, but there is non-fiction article on success and books of Stephen King and the author says something about all the different voices and styles of Stephen King. He goes on about King's ability to change his style from book to book. I think that's what I was hoping for with Doctor Sleep.
Late edit 2: I'm not even half done with the book. My mind is completely open and my opinion could change by the time I'm done with the book. We'll see. 10-01-2013 06:09 PMmtdmanRemember folks, this thread is marked for spoilers. I've finished the book and I'm going to talk about it here.
Actually, I always felt that Jack and Danny had a very close relationship. If you remember from the shining, when Danny was distressed he always ran to Jack. Wendy even had jealous feelings about how close they were. I don't feel that Dan's love for his father in this book is out of line. Remember, time heals wounds. Any bitterness he may have felt towards his dad after the Overlook would lessen over time. And adults tend to forget about their problems with their parents from childhood as they grow older. Dan doesn't seem to have a problem pointing out to Abbra at the end all the faults of the Torrence family and their anger, including pointing out what his father did to him and his mom. Personally, I kind of choked up a bit at the end of the Overlook confrontation when Danny saw his father's ghost.
I liked Dan, Abbra, and most of the 'good guy' characters. I even liked the True Knot 'bad guys' quite a bit. Imo, there could have been a bit more character development of the Knot. Actually, I was really surprised at the short length of the book, I expected a lot more 'stuff', and lot longer book. Especially after the extended wait.
I would have liked to have more development of the ghosties and the inherent evilness of the Overlook spot. I really felt that was glossed over a bit, especially with all the fear Dan had surrounding going back to Colorado and the dreams. I was expecting more, especially after Dan unlocked the ghosties in his mind and set them loose on the Knot.
I enjoyed the discussion of Dan's alcoholism and AA stuff. That was developed well, and I suspect a lot of that was King's personal experience. I also enjoyed the Doctor Sleep part of Dan's life as well. And never caught the connection to Doc from the Shining. That was a nice closed circle.
I was not expecting a lot of Shining stuff in this book, I wasn't expecting a sequel to that book, but a story about Dan Torrence as he grew up and went on in life. I didn't read a lot of the hype or buy into that because I wanted to go into the book without a lot of expectations. I did enjoy a lot of the links to the shining that did appear in the story. I would have liked to have heard more about what happened to Wendy and Dick.
It did occur to me though near the end of the book, that this could have been about anybody. The story could have been told without Danny Torrence and the characters from the shining and been a good Stephen King book all on its own. I got a lot of vibes from other books in this one. I get a lot of Black House and Jack in Dan's character. The True Knot give me a vibe of the vampires from Salem's Lot and DT. There's lots of pieces of other books in this book.
I will say, I saw the brother/sister thing coming from a mile away. Totally predictable. 10-01-2013 06:20 PMmtdmanBTW, the narrator on this audio book was so-so. I had a love/hate relationship with him. He was good at some times, made things really creepy, but then some of the voices all blended together. It was Wil Patton who narrated it. 10-01-2013 10:26 PMJeanI will come back to this thread when I finish the book (very soon), so now I've just skimmed WDiL's big post, but it seems he managed to put his finger on what feels wrong with the book. Sorry Bill, I really really wanted to love it (not only because it's King, but because you loved it, too!) 10-02-2013 04:19 AMmtdmanI can agree with the same 'voice' thing over the past several books. I think it is a function of King over time. I much prefer 70s and 80s King, when every book was a different voice and adventure. But still, he has done good work this century. 11.22.63 comes to mind. 10-02-2013 09:44 AMMerlin1958I really appreciate that, Jean, but what can you do? To each his own in the end you just cannot force the issue. To me, this book was like visiting an old friend after many years. I thought that he weaved the story very well with the original, even bringing back (scary) friends to do their evil. I also have to admit that ...
I know the thread is marked, but still "a "spoiler tag" seems appropriate.
Spoiler: 10-02-2013 09:53 AMjhanicBill, my feelings about my relationship with my father pretty much mirror those of Danny/Jack, though I have forgiven him since his passing. He was almost never physically abusive, but LOTS of mental abuse. It took me a long time to get over it. I fully understand Dan's feelings.
John 10-02-2013 10:01 AMMerlin1958Yeah, maybe I was too eager to "wrap the Jack/Danny' relationship in a bow. Must be a VERY complicated relationship, which I suppose is exactly what SK was trying to accomplish and whooshed right over my head. I suppose it is not easy to forgive your Dad for wanting to make you "take your medicine", even if he is possessed by "Ghostie's". It's just that, I have to admit, I always felt sorry for poor old Jack. Like his whole life happened to him, but in truth that was not the case. He was accountable as well. Still, I'm a sucker for a happy ending I suppose.
Fortunately, for me, my Dad was great and I hope I can be thought of as half as great a guy as he turned out to be. Of course he had his faults as well, but we tend to remember the good times, right? LOL
P.S. My sincere condolences to you, John. 10-02-2013 11:34 AMjhanicNo condolences needed. I got over that "phase" of my life a long time ago.
John 10-02-2013 11:38 AMMerlin1958 10-02-2013 11:56 AMjhanicThanks.
John 10-02-2013 06:15 PMmtdmanI believe that Dan knew that most of what Jack did was caused by the hotel, and I think that makes it easier for him to forgive and still love his father. I always thought that The Shining was a book about Jack Torrence, and I really liked Jack as a (tragic) character. I related well with him in that book and I'm glad to see him get some redemption in Doctor Sleep. My father was far from a perfect guy, and my sister and brother harbor a lot of grudges towards him still. I do not, I had a close relationship with him and even though he wasn't a great guy, I still love him. Granted, he didn't try to kill me or beat my mother to death with a mallet, but I think in general kids want to forgive and forget with their parents. I think Dan has those feelings with his father, and understands what he went through with the alcoholism. 10-03-2013 06:30 PMRoland of Gilead 33they say that as kids you put your parents on a pedestal and think VERY highly of them. and of course i think it depends on what kind of parents you end up with of course. but when you grew up and this is my own thoughts you notice and realize they shouldn't be put on a pedestal at all regardless if you have good parents or not. they made plenty of mistakes and done shit they no doubt regret.
my grandfather for example i was very close with him as a kid. he died when i was 12. and i pretty much idolized him. and through the years since he died in June of (1991) my parents tell me various things on how he wasn't so perfect. and though i never got over his death and i prolly never will. i do accept that. neither of my parents had the greatest parents, don't get me wrong i love my grandparents dearly
but they as i learn how they were as parents it does sadden me how they weren't that great as parents and i disagree with some of the things they
did as my parents were growing up. my point is i accept that they weren't perfect, nobody is i sure as hell am not.
neither is anyone on this board. and i think most people prolly come to the same conclusion as i did with my parents and my grandparents.
my parents aren't perfect either. but they did ok i think. anyways, i bought Doctor Sleep yesterday actually. so i'm not that far into it. i've only read like 10 pages so far. so i just started it. it is great to read about these characters again. Danny T. was one character i did wonder what became of him? and Charlie McGee from Firestarter is another one i wonder about as well.
i'm not saying he needs to do a sequel to Firestarter but it would be great if he did put her in a future novel in some form, or just make a passing reference to Charlie as well. 10-05-2013 08:54 AMCyberGhostfaceJust finished. Overall, I liked it a lot. It's not as good as The Shining but it's good enough that it can be read right after without the quality suffering.
One issue I had was
Spoiler:
Also I was a bit amused at King's statement in the afterword that the only "truly great" sequel to Psycho was Mick Garris's. Seriously, Steve? 10-05-2013 08:57 AMMerlin1958Quote:Actually, I seem to recall a vague reference to a fling in "The Shining, but I could be wrong. 10-05-2013 09:38 AMRoland of Gilead 33i don't remember if it was mentioned or not cause i haven't read the book in years. but honestly i don't think anyone expects it to be better than the original. though i've only read like 20 some pages now. i read here & there and since it's the weekend THANK GOD i prolly will end up reading more.
but i hope to enjoy it. and as for his comment about Pyscho i dunno which sequel is the best one, but i enjoy parts 2 & 4 over part 3 to be honest.
i enjoy the Mick Garris one. in fact i forgot he even did that one to be honest. but i enjoy all the psycho films. it's going off topic a bit but that's my take on it. 10-05-2013 09:46 AMMerlin1958 10-05-2013 02:41 PMCyberGhostfaceWell IMO none of the sequels are bad, I get the impression that all of the people involved with the sequels took it seriously as opposed to another another Friday the 13th, but I do wonder why King would single out the fourth film besides his friendship with Mick Garris. It has a very "made for TV" (which it was) feel to it whereas I thought Psycho II was a very strong film in its own right and even when compared to Hitchcock.
Also in regards to Dr. Sleep...
Spoiler: 10-05-2013 04:32 PMRoland of Gilead 33i realize that but i was curious what others thought of the book to be honest. and let's face it for me people have told me or i heard about how some shows end or a spoiler. shit when it comes to some tv shows if i miss certain episodes the media itself tells you the spoiler sometimes in the title of the article weather you want to know it or not. i did look at the end of the book to see if he lived though, and was thrilled the ending wasn't like the shining. in short they don't bother me i looked up a thread bout doctor sleep and the 1st one i saw was this one so i said fuck it and my curiosity led me here. 10-05-2013 06:45 PMmtdmanQuote:I am in favor of the idea that Jack had a one night stand with someone when he was drunk and didn't remember it and/or know it ended up in a pregnancy.
Anyone else but me have the lyrics to the Steve Miller song in their head while reading this? Every time Abbra's name came up, "Abbra abbra cadabra, I want to reach out and grab ya".