I voted saved: the next loop is the last before final salvation.
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I voted saved: the next loop is the last before final salvation.
He is damned to be stuck in a continual loop until he gives up his quest for the Tower... which, by doing that, is his form of salvation.
I voted the same as Odetta for the exact same reason. I think he has to cry off to end it which represents a very common paradox in all of our lives
I voted saved, the next loop being the last - as explained in the other thread I think it all rests on the fact he now has the horn.
I'm with Darkthoughs on this one. I think now that he has the horn this will be his last time.
which makes three of us...
Four
Not me :rock:
:lol:
**stirs the pot**
*pushes Matt into the pot* :innocent:
:shoot:
But seriously, I do not believe the horn to represent anything except the idea that this loop will be "different".
Just a sort of starting point of his redemption?
I could be the point that marks where his obsession actually began. Perhaps having it with him will be another way try and remember his humanity through the next loop.
but I am not sure it will do the trick and the vast majority of us seem to think that even if he knew, he would still do it.
Yes, I agree with the fact that Roland will always give the tower precedence. I sort of consider that to be an occupational hazard of any hero though - y'know compulsive/obsessive behaviour :D
I think he would still go through with it even if he knew but I think that "difference" will be that he could make it to the top of the Tower and into the room instead of just being pushed back. Also, and here is an option folk haven't even thought of...maybe he gets killed in the next loop and his ka-tet fails.
I thought about Roland getting killed - before he even draws a ka-tet, though. I argued elsewhere that if he refused to kill everyone at Tull but died there instead, it might be just what is expected from him - and he would be saved, and the Beam heal itself, and Blaine rots and falls apart before releasing that gas, and the wolves stop forever, etc. It would be ok as a speculation if wasn't so thin. Your reasoning opens other horizons, however.
i think the horn is irrelevant.
you know those video games where you finish the game and then you get some stupid cheat code that is really irrelevant since you've finished the game anyhow?
that is the horn.
:lol:
:thumbsup:
;)
I voted with Matt and Odetta...but then again, I think the 3 of us were chatting about this very thing the other day and we all agreed then too.
I think that is the message King wanted to get out there. If you want salvation, cry off your obsessions that tend to ruin your life.
Its not like the man never had any :lol:
Obsessions I mean
True.
Funny thought...maybe if Roland would have just hooked up with a well hung black man, it would have quenched the thirst.
excuse me, isn't the story a little more complicated than that? On the one hand, it is obsession. On the other, it is saving the universe - nothing, I believe, to spit on. With saving lots of individual people (their very souls, not only their lives) into the bargain. And, true - the other side again - killing lots of individual people. All in all, the dialectic of the Dark Tower doesn't seem reducible to one single line.Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt
Sure, but the tower was saved many moons before he actually got there.
He could have cried off after Blue Heaven. The Tower was speaking through Sheemie--"all is well"
1. yes... and once a certain pink crystal showed him that everything was well with a certain girl...
2. Making him cry off after he actually saved the universe would seem gratuitously cruel, wouldn't it? Like saying to a child: you can have that candy after you clean your room, and after he actually does it, refuse him that candy on the pretext that it is bad for teeth and generally kids shouldn't be indulged.
3. Finally, I thought that everything we could consider bad was done by him before Blue Heaven, not after? Is there something so very wrong about saving Sai King or Patrick? About erasing Crimson King from existence? Or would you feel comfortable with a dead insane wizard hanging about the Tower?
In a word, we shouldn't forget that The DT isn't a moral pamphlet. It's awfully complicated stuff concerning all possible aspects of existence, and none of them should be disregarded when we discuss it.
If you feel that way, its cool with me. I believe the story has all kinds of different aspects but the moral is the same.
Roland is doomed to repeat the loop because he cannot find it in himself to cry off. We can't re write history here, nothing mattered to him other than the tower. Right up to the last minute he wanted that tower like crack.
As far as number two. Hell yeah I would deny the candy to the child if it was an obsession and had proven to be a bad road to take. But it doesn't really apply because no one promised Roland the tower
I am not trying to over simplify the story but I do believe it holds a message about redemption and how people tend to self destruct themselves